暗号の保管方法 – Adrijan Scekic

Cryptonews Podcastのこのエピソードでは、ホストのMatt ZahabがCRYPTOTAGのCEOであるAdrijan Scekicにインタビューしています。彼の暗号化への道のり、CRYPTOTAGのビジネス、暗号の大量採用、規制などについて話しています。

エピソードのタイムスタンプ ：

0:00 Intro 
2:24 Journey into crypto 
6:53 CRYPTOTAG 
15:33 Shamir's Secret Sharing (SSS) 
23:12 Crypto mass adoption 
26:36 Crypto regulation 
32:58 Marketing strategies in crypto 
38:09 Rapid fire questions 
39:31 Outro

The episode premiered on May 19, 2021. Listen to it on other platforms here or explore the latest episodes of Cryptonews Podcast.

Full transcript:

Matt Zahab: 0:08

Ladies and gentlemen, today's guest is a security guru and wants everyone to be their own bank, truly a man of the people. Before jumping headfirst into the crypto industry, he studied economics at the Amsterdam University of Applied Sciences, and then studied computer science at the Polish Japanese Academy of information technology in Warsaw. Present day, he's the founder of CRYPTOTAG, a crypto security company from Amsterdam. I'm very pleased to welcome to the crypto news podcast, Adrijan Scekic. Adrian, welcome to the show And my apologies for butchering your last name.

Adrjan Scekic:

 0:46

Don't worry about it. Thanks, Matt, amazing to be here. Looking forward to the show.

Matt Zahab:

 0:51

Me as well, our whole team is. How'd I do in the last name? Did I butcher too much or no?

Adrjan Scekic:

 0:56

A little bit, a little bit better. I get that all the time.

Matt Zahab:

 0:59

I'll clean up on the Dutch. I am getting there. And speaking of Dutch, you're in lovely Amsterdam, one of my favorite cities in the world. I don't think anyone has ever gone to Amsterdam, and not had a 10 out of 10 time there. What is crypto life like in Amsterdam at the moment?

Adrjan Scekic:

 1:13

Actually, I think life in general in Amsterdam is totally different right now because of COVID. But yeah, there's a lot of cool people in Amsterdam and the areas around it. Yeah, we're working with some big influencers from Amsterdam now to get the brand and our ideology out there. We have some nice partnerships with some existing parties that sell hardware wallets and building exchanges and gateway so I think there should be way more activity in the Netherlands than it is. But it's not bad and yeah, COVID is not making it easier. So it's really hard to reach out to people. Before that, we had a lot of conferences and meetings so you can meet a lot of new people and now it's all zoom and Skype and Teams so a bit different, but it's a cool place to be.

Matt Zahab:

 2:24

Yeah, it's an absolute treat and a half. And everyone can definitely agree with that. Before we get into crypto, tell us a little about your journey into the crypto space. How you got in what made you want to get in and the whole nine yards there.

Adrjan Scekic:

 2:37

Yeah, sure. So I think it's a typical down the rabbit hole story. I, after the financial crisis in 2008, I'm a curious guy, I always have been. I tried to figure out like, okay, what happened with all that money that people lost, I couldn't understand that I was a student back then. And the more I tried to find about the subject, the more I found out that I really didn't understand anything about money, because I couldn't believe that there is basically a company organization, very small group of people that are creating this money and the closer you are to the table where it's getting created, the more opportunities and possibilities you have and the further away from the table, yeah, that's tough luck. So yeah, I started going, I started self educating myself and the more I read the more shocked I was around 2012 2013 for the first time Bitcoin came by I really didn't, yeah, I really didn't get it until a couple of years later. I saw a video on YouTube with some Chinese guys that were buying up old PCs and they were jamming them into abandoned warehouses and they started mining and this always hooked for me, because my brain works in images, not in words and then after this part, they started explaining Bitcoin and how it worked, etc, etc. And then it really took me to the extent that I was yeah, like the typical Bitcoin story. I wasn't sleeping, I wasn't eating, all the time, I was trying to learn more, learn more, learn more, and I think 2016 17 started buying some Bitcoin myself some Ethereum and then afterwards, I got into the, my friend group also started investing and the topic at parties in the beer table was always this. So to one point, I got so much energy out of this, that I wanted to do something into this community. And that was the moment when CRYPTOTAG was was founded already three years ago. So that's the short version of the story how I got into crypto.

Matt Zahab:

 5:18

And the rest is history. Do you remember what those first images look like, of the Chinese gentleman who were packing these warehouses with obviously all the hardware like, what? Why was that so powerful in your head? Why did that sort of flip the switch to be like, wow, this is really going to be the next big thing?

Adrjan Scekic:

 5:38

Well, you know, it wasn't the most important thing from the documentary, but it was a very how can I say it was very rough image, right. And I saw these guys that were, they saw potential and they grabbed it and they bought up these old computers and rented out this vacant office spaces and just started creating their own businesses, you know, and after, so this was like the image that really grabbed me like building something from nothing. And that's where a lot of great things happen like Amazon and Apples, and Google's all of them are started somewhere in the basement or in the garage, or whatever. And really stood by me and after that, in this video, it was explained how the mining works, how the hard cap worked. And yeah, I don't know the image of creating something in the opportunistic vibe there plus, with the explanation of Bitcoin and affair, and sound money really grabbed me. And that was the image that always comes back first.

Matt Zahab:

 6:53

And the rest is history. He brought up CRYPTOTAG, that's the bread and butter of the show today. Really cool company. You guys are making a lot of waves and really growing quickly. I personally love the influencer marketing strategy, how you are sending CRYPTOTAG out to massive we'll call them crypto influencers, even though they don't see themselves as crypto influencers but you're sending CRYPTOTAGs, which I will let you explain in a couple seconds to people in the crypto verse on Twitter who have hundreds of 1000s of followers, high five digit followers, and they repost you guys. And like I said, the ball just keeps rolling to brilliant strategy and it's clearly working. Before we get into marketing, before we get into everything else, please tell our guests about the essence of CRYPTOTAG and what exactly it is

Adrjan Scekic:

 7:36

Yeah, thanks. Thanks for the compliment by the way. What is the essence of CRYPTOTAG? So I was explaining these talks that we had with the friends during beer in the sun and we a lot of friends made a lot of money, they have money to invest. And then we felt like okay, so what are we going to do? Mark the other co founder who couldn't join today, he is a media guy who used to be a director of a radio show in the Netherlands. And then first we were thinking like, maybe we should do a YouTube channel or something to get people involved into this. Explain to them like,oOkay, how do you get in what's wrong with the money system, etc. But when we were looking in the into this, we figured out that there was a lot of people doing that better than we could. So we started looking in other directions, how can we contribute to this community? What can we do? And we had a lot of these kinds of discussions. And one time I remember, like I said a couple of my friends was really making a huge gains. And they're thinking like, Okay, if I should maybe take this off an exchange, because back then we also a lot of exchanges were getting hacked, and people were losing a lot of money. So that's when, for the first time really, we were struck by okay, but wait a minute, how do we take it off? And how do you do that? So then the whole story of a hardware wallet comes, comes on the table. And then you install this thing I remember the first time you had a hardware wallet, I think the most people who use a hardware wallet have this special moment you think you're done, you think you took all the right steps to secure your crypto and your money that you invested into crypto, hopefully, you can store it long term so that it gets more, it becomes more and then you're left there with a piece of paper. So basically, you're transferred all those steps that you took as a good crypto citizen to keep your crypto safe are now written down on a piece of paper. And that was really mind blowing. So then we started, okay, this is something we can build something from this, I think and that's how we started. We said okay, we're going to try to fix this problem. And in the beginning, it was really like a problem solving thing. And later on, we figured out like this can be something really beautiful not only like, thing to fix a problem, but because crypto is so not tangible, you cannot hold your Bitcoin, you cannot see it in your wallet maybe. And that's why we decided like, we're not going to just focus on pricing and make the cheapest thing out there. And we're going to really make this something that is almost like a nice watch, or a car or a nice motorcycle that people love and that they take really hard, close to their heart. And that's when we started like, okay, we're not going to check prices anymore, etc, we're just going to build the most amazing, and the best product that we can think of, because back then there was one competitor that was already sold out one year. And then it's like, okay, that that market, the middle market is already there. So we're going to make something in the in the premium market. And that's that's how it started. I invited a friend of mine that I know from the from the student days, and I remember that this guy was really smart and good with the 3d modeling and the drawings and stuff. I had some things in my head, I can draw a bit. But this guy really could make the first promo models. And that's how we get started. The first there was Martin I, the co founders. Later the guy was talking about, the 3d model guy. And then we just started building we went to the I don't know how it's called, in Holland, it's like a Home Depot. We just went there and bought the first sheets of metal and started drawing started cutting started bending stuff. And yeah, it was an amazing time. And that's how it started actually just by deciding like, hey, this is the community that we believe in? How can we contribute? Go back and forth, back and forth like before it and then find something that you can work on and then move on with it. Right? So

Matt Zahab:

 12:17

Thank you for that. And the CRYPTOTAG in, I guess if I were to sum it up in one sentence, really, it's a bit of a long one. But it's really a premium device that is used for pretty much storing your hardware wallet recovery seed and it is made of titanium and it's fireproof, up to I believe 1600 degrees Celsius. It's bulletproof erosion and corrosion resistance. So pretty much it is I guess in laymen terms, it would be unfuckwithable. There is nothing we can do to get in its way. Now, why, with the digital world advancing every second, why would one choose obviously beside the aspect of having, you know, the security there, but why would one choose to store their crypto bags on steel, on the hardware wallet over the exchange? Besides the security which of course is the creme de la creme and the biggest pro. What are the pros are there of taking your crypto offline, storing in the cold wallet and having a CRYPTOTAG for that double and triple factor?

Adrjan Scekic:

 13:22

So yes, of course the first thing is the security of course and being able to control your money because that's the whole philosophy behind our product. Be your own bank, don't trust third parties or any other party out there to be the boss of your money. So if you really take your investment and your freedom and your future wealth serious, you should be thinking about self custody and self storage. And we are a part of that whole solution. And we hope to contribute to that. So what is different? Maybe next to security. Like I said, people don't have anything in the crypto community to buy for themselves. Yeah, you can buy bitcoin t shirt or Bitcoin hat but I always compare it with something really personal like a personal hobby or whatever if you have a nice car if you want to race cars or bikes or whatever. You go out there you buy that thing you associate with it, you take part of the community and you can identify yourself in another group and then you can talk about those things etc. In crypto, there's nothing like that. And I think we are really in young market. So this kind of brands really have to stand up. That's why our new slogan is this is for the holders. We want to build more stuff than only a cool Titanium Backup. We really want to become a brand for the holder. So not only selling metal plates but going further with that. So maybe I'm jumping to another question now. But the first thing is yes, security, self custody, taking your future wealth and your investment in your own hands. And just treating yourself with something very beautiful that you can also transfer to your kid or really look at it feel something, it's like, it's a special thing for yourself. It's a very personal thing and it should also be beautiful, have the best finish and the best customer service out there. So that's what we're trying to do.

Matt Zahab:

 15:33

So what are the next steps for, you touched on a lot of good points there and I'm going to go back and touch on a bunch of those. But we talked about the next steps of CRYPTOTAG and being more than that titanium metal company. What are the next steps of CRYPTOTAG?

Adrjan Scekic:

 15:48

So one of the projects that we're working on right now is a solution that fixes the problem that people are facing now because if you buy a CRYPTOTAG, and you store your recovery seed that gives you access to your hardware wallet and your funds, you still have a single point of failure. And we have been following and we work also with the Trezor. They are our official partner, we work with them. And what did they figure out? They use a mathematical system called Shamir secret sharing and this allows you to put any secret in there, it could be a string of 12 24 words, most of the time, that's where the recovery seed is. You can cut it up in multiple pieces and you are, you can set the threshold of those pieces and how much you can lose without losing the whole secret. So for example, we can cut up Matt Zahab, I hope that I didn't butcher your last name right now.

Matt Zahab:

 16:53

You killed it

Adrjan Scekic:

 16:53

So Matt Zahab and we can say, okay, we are going to put this secret into this Shamir secret sharing scheme. We are going to cut it up into three pieces, and you are allowed to lose one of those pieces and with only those two pieces left, you can still retrieve the secret. So you can still see that in that Shamir secret sharing scheme, its Matt Zahab. So this is very important for our customers that are really thinking about how do I fix that single point of failure. And this is the next product that we're going to release, I'm really confident that this will help the holders out there a lot because then you can store one of those products at your house, one of them at your other family or relatives house and one of them in your deposit box or whatever. So that's a product thing, but like I said, this is for the holders, it's not only about this product. So we're going to also sell hardware devices from Trezor and Ledger and maybe some other brands so that people don't have to shop in our shop and then go to Trezor and ledger and pay shipping fees, etc. So we want to make it easier for them to buy everything at one spot. But what's also very important in this bull market, a lot of new people are coming in so it's very important also to explain to them how to do this stuff and why. So first of all, explain to them like okay, this is what you need, if you have a crypto over an amount of over an X amount USD or euro or yen or whatever, then you should be really taking your security serious because no one is doing it for you, you should do it yourself. So what we're gonna do is create some digital trainings also on our website with some cool guys out there we cannot say names yet, but we will be partnering with them to create this digital training and we will put this also on our website. And next to that. So we have a section of products then we will have a section of knowledge base and training. And when you have everything secured so you have you know what's happening, what you need to do, then you can buy the products to do it. Then the next step also, education this can be paid programs for advice is how can you educate yourself? So you have secured let's say for example, you have secured your five Bitcoin. We're in a bear market now your Bitcoin is worth 250k. Are you going to ride, this is our experience. Are you going to ride the bear market again to maybe a retracement of 80 90% and go back to 50 60k again, or can you do things smarter? Are there guys out there that can educate you on what you should do, and how you should behave yourself in a bear market or in the coming bear market. So what we want to do is the hoddlers, which we believe in a long term hoddling, that's what we believe in. But we want to help people understand that there's a real possibility that the coins that they bought in a bull market they can yeah, they can decrease in value and we're going to help them not to ride the wave down but protect them against that wave down and maybe teach them how to buy back at the good moment etc. So kind of financial, not financial advice, but also training. So we have a training before like what is happening when you buy crypto, what are your responsibilities then the second part is okay, we have the products here that you can secure it with and then when you have secured what can you do? Should you lend out your maybe your Bitcoin in your interest? Yeah, and earn you some money? Or should you step out at a certain of certain amount of time when you see that okay Dogecoin is an old meme coins are up right now is maybe a good moment to sell some Bitcoin to buy with a Bitcoin that you sold right now to buy back double, triple.

Matt Zahab:

 21:31

100%. And that's a huge part of mass adoption is ed cating the rookies and noobs as they come in, on the market, be ause a lot of them do gamble fa too often. And speaking of ga bling, quick shout out to our fr ends at CoinPoker, who are th world's premier crypto poker pl tform. You guys have heard me ta k about these fellas and la ies many many times before. Th y are the revolutionary bl ckchain technology based pl tform that was developed by an ambitious team of poker lo ers and sports gamblers. I ab olutely love CoinPoker and th ir current $CHP which is the ec nomy and the CoinPoker ec nomy providing players with ex lusive benefits, future de elopments, tons of rewards, th y give away 1000s of rewards ev ry single week. And they also of er instant and secure tr nsactions using USDT Ethereum Bi coin or $CHP tokens. One of my favorite parts is no KYC as we l. You simply log on five mi utes sign up and you're da cing, you're ready to go. I al o love the mobile app wh never I'm on the go. I can do a uick couple hands of Texas Ho d'em and bet on sports, which is my absolute favorite. I'm ov r in North America and pl yoff season is quickly ap roaching for hockey and ba ketball. Always one of the be t times to bet and CoinPoker ta es care of that as well. So an of those things interests yo

Adrjan Scekic:

 22:51

No. I think last time I played was in college your sports Gambler, a poker fa and love crypto, then head ov r to coinpoker.com these guys ar an incredible. Adrijan, are yo gambler at all? What about po er? You ever dabble in poker? maybe. I wasn't a really lucky guy. So no, not for me.

Matt Zahab:

 23:12

Not for everyone different strokes for folks. You got to have a couple chips up your sleeve to get lucky in poker. But anyways going back to CRYPTOTAG though, one of your slogans is, you know, sort of on banking yourself. Well, that's Alex Mashinsky at Celsius, but you want your consumers and just the general people to not trust their bank and rely on them 100% and you want them to be independent and responsible and join the crypto economy and you also want them to be responsible for their private keys. Now this seems like a very big challenge. You talked about creating these sort of, you know, training modules, and in different videos to help rookies and noobs alike to get into the space. Do you think this is possible for everyone? Like are there any intermediary solution? What can be done to really bridge that gap from the rookie to crypto ecosystem?

Adrjan Scekic:

 24:10

Well, that's a good question. If I look at myself and a lot of people around me especially when you don't have any any experience in the crypto world, a lot of the information is fragmented. For me personally, it was really hard to put the puzzle pieces together. So I would follow a couple of youtubers, get some information there. I would follow some Twitter guys get some information there. I would read some some books and get some basic info there. But I think that the most important thing is to educate people on the basics of what is Bitcoin, what is crypto and why is it so important? That's the first thing and then after that, I'm sure that they will go down the rabbit hole and wanted to buy some themselves. And from that point on, it's really total chaos. There's a lot of gateways there, there's a lot of exchanges, how do you get in? How do you get out? How will get your money back? What about taxes, etc? So I know people really struggle in especially now in the bull market, I see my phone lighting up again. Everybody's asking like, hey, where should I get some? How can I get some? That's the first question. And then after that, they will ask like, okay, so what now? How do I store it? Where do I, so really basic things, I think for mass adoption, like explaining to people first the basics, what is it? Why is this so important? And from that point on, they go down the rabbit hole, and they will want to buy some and from that step, they really need to know what are the new responsibilities that they will have to take, because there is no bank there, there is no third party or yeah the exchange is there, but you shouldn't put all your bags on there, because the history has shown that it's not a smart thing to do. So I think to start there is a really good point to get people at least interested in again, then get the basics correct. And then from there on, I noticed it from my own network, when people get into it, and they start buying and selling sending back and forth some coins, they will figure it out themselves. So after that, it becomes like a personal education thing. But I think the we have a lot of things to fix in the beginning. So basic information, and then how to store it. What are your responsibilities when you're holding crypto?

Matt Zahab:

 26:36

So you mentioned regulation, and people moving away from the banks and not having that big brother big sister who was there to you know, hold your hand at all time. In crypto, if you send a, you know, some type of coin or currency to the wrong address you're toast, you know, that's it, that's the end of it, you could lose hundreds of 1000s of dollars, just by sending the wrong crypto address. It's a nightmare and hopefully, none of our listeners are no one in the world has to ever go through that again. Now, regulation is a huge issue in the crypto sphere and I'd love to know what is your position on that matter? Do you think we need more regulation, less regulation? What kind of regulation? How do you feel about that?

Adrjan Scekic:

 27:19

That's also a very difficult topic. Everybody has their own opinion about that. I think there should be a form of regulation to protect people who really are doing stupid things and they do not know what they're doing. So a lot of people get burnt into in the ICO craze. You see it happening now we're in an overheating market, people are loaning money they're getting really into trouble buying Doge coins, buying meme coins and whatever. It's all nice when the music is playing, but one time this music can stop and then those people are going to be the people on social media crying and screaming and this will set the tone for the rest of the community. So this can be a horrible also for us. And so some regulations should be in place to yeah to control and check the market. We have now in the Netherlands, the Dutch bank has some regulations in place for the Dutch exchanges, etc. Okay, you can think about that what you want but if we want mass adoption, if we want the whole country to move towards Bitcoin, we need some rules. We came from a wild west show in 2017, it's going to happen a couple of times more but I think there is a certain percentage of this people that are doing this stupid things that can really hurt the community. For those people, we need the basic rules like okay, know what you're doing do not, maybe they should be protected from themselves like no, you cannot, for example, maybe stupid example, you cannot take a loan to buy crypto, because what are you doing? You never bought crypto and all of a sudden you're buying Dogecoin for 20k? What are you doing?

Matt Zahab:

 29:26

So it's almost like a driver's license or something where you have to pass a test to be able to invest in you know, get a loan to go 10 x leverage on a shit coin.

Adrjan Scekic:

 29:38

Yeah. How to do it? I really don't know, but I think I think we need some playing rules, otherwise we will get, the whole community will suffer from yeah, people who don't know what they're doing instead of the people that behave and the people that are doing good stuff will be punished for those guys. So that's why I think we need some basic rules. Do I think that these rule should go so far that at the end, everybody knows what you're sending? Where how much money you're holding? I don't think so I think you should be somewhere in between.

Matt Zahab:

 30:13

I think I think part of the problem with the whole regulation aspect is you have to look at the people making the rules. Now, the absolute crypto veterans, and the best people in the space have started their own companies, or are working for companies that have huge, you know, incentive packages, and are making tons of money, they have freedom to work wherever they want, in a truly decentralized world. And like, what kind of value prop if you are like the EU, or you know, or SEC in the States or Canada or wherever country in whatever country or continent in the world? Like, what are you going to do to get the big boys and girls on board? Like, you know what I mean? Like they already have everything they want, and more? Why would they come help the government and be a regulator when it's almost like crypto is battling the government? It's tough.

Adrjan Scekic:

 31:03

Yeah, it is. And it's also the example that I just mentioned, like the Dutch central bank is making these rules for all those exchanges and the gateways to get people from Fiat to crypto. And these rules are really not proportional for these businesses. It's plain stupid, because they don't understand that like, every time you want to buy some crypto, you have to make a picture of your wallet, and then send it to them like okay, but this is not doable for these guys that cannot manage this. You're killing their business by asking them this, you know, so I think somewhere in their heart, they mean, well, because they want, of course, like you said, who are those guys who are making the rules? Right? I don't think most of them know what is happening in the crypto space. So they're trying to fix something by just guessing what is correct, because they don't understand it. They don't know how it works so they think, oh, okay, probably there was there's some money laundering there so we should apply the old fashioned rules that we used to in the normal finance system, and then we will see how it goes. But I hope and I think we move on, and more people get educated about about crypto and about the new businesses that are being made and also the business, the new business owners take the responsibility of crossing over to the government's to help the community, right. So yeah, you can stay on the commercial side and things like yeah screw the government, but it could also help the people behind you next to you and your own company, if you jump over there, and help them as an advisor to understand what is going on and what we all want to achieve and that it's good for them and their children and their grandchildren. And then we will find a way to make those ground rules and benefit from them.

Matt Zahab:

 32:58

Right. That's very enlightening and very well said. I want to touch on the CRYPTOTAG marketing strategy. I brought that up at the beginning of the show. I do have a marketing background and I absolutely love what you guys are doing. Mind you, it's a lot easier when you have a sexy sleek, you know almost ecommerce product like you guys have. But that's besides the point. To my knowledge, you are reaching out to influencers in the crypto space a little cha cha dm, slide, right cha cha slide into the DM, send him hey, we're gonna send you a beautiful CRYPTOTAG. Send me your address, will you accept? They're probably going to say yes, you send them a CRYPTOTAG, they repost it, you get tons of followers, even if a very small percent half a percent, sees that and goes wow, this is beautiful, I'm gonna snag one of these, it's probably worth your while. Tell me about how that strategy came to fruition and how you guys keep iterating and changing up the marketing strategy.

Adrjan Scekic:

 33:53

First, first of all, I'm a telecoms guy. So I used to be a corporate sales guy for seven, eight years. So I was really comfortable doing b2b deals. So the first idea was we're going to build something in the bull markets and when we started the money was just bursting through the windows through the tiles, everyone wanted to invest etc. All the hardware wallet resellers in the Netherlands and Germany etc., all of those guys made huge, huge amounts of money so everybody had money to buy a stock and sell it so first of all we felt like this is how we're going to do it. Then the whole market crashed and we had sold the first batches to some resellers and they were saying now like hey, I bought a bunch of your products but I cannot sell it. I'm having liquidity problems. Okay, please buy this back. That left us with a very bad vibe, first of all, that we couldn't control them how they were doing their business and second of all, we couldn't control our marketing, communication, and the way we communicate with our customers, because this will always done by a third party. So we, after those discussions, we chose to take everything back close down the focus on b2b. We still have some, some great partners that we respect and trust. So we really shrunk down that side of business and then we stepped over to the b2c side. And we think, okay, we're not going to do this via third parties anymore. We want to service our customer, we want to have the best customer experience. We always want to be helpful, we have a chat online, if you send us a mail, we reply immediately, no. And this really worked out, well. We didn't have any problems anymore. We're like, hey, we ship out three, four, or 500 pieces and then three months later, there's a bear market, they want to sell the back? No, when people buy something, they buy it, we enable our customers to have the best customer experience. If something is wrong, we fix it. And this gave us a lot of trust also from our customers that started reviewing our products. You can see on our review page, people are going ballistic, how happy they are with the product, how happy they are, and the way that we treat them. So this is also very, very important for us. And yes, we have a beautiful product. We only the finishes, like six, seven steps into the whole production process, nobody is doing that. We give a lot of attention to small detail because like we said, this is something very special. It shouldn't be like a metal thing. This is very special close to heart to people. So it should be beautiful, there should be a lot of energy and effort and eye for detail in it. So we tend to see that people really adore the product. They love the logo. So yes, it opens some doors when you when you send a message and you personally engraved the name and you say like hey, we've be following each other. We like what you do for the community. This is our way of contributing. Would you like? Would you like us to send you a demo? A lot of times doesn't work. A lot of times you have you have a discussion like yeah, but I don't want to give my own address this kind of thing. But yeah, it sure helps to have a nice product a beautiful product. It opens doors for conversation and yeah, we are here already now three, four years in the beginning it was not easy. It was not easy. But we have to, in the bear market especially, we had to push on we have to keep sending out those emails, keep active on Twitter, etc. And yeah, I think that effort back then brought us a lot of attention a lot of trust not only from our customers but also from the community and the bigger guys that are in the community who call themselves influencers or educators. They also are respecting us now and want to connect their name to CRYPTOTAG, so we really happy with it. Really.

Matt Zahab:

 38:09

That's great to hear. And you guys are also tearing it up on Twitter, you have a very cheeky Twitter account. And again, if you're not buzzing on crypto Twitter, you are a absolute nobody. I myself need to giddy up on that, everyone needs to giddy up on that, but that's a story for another day. A couple more questions before we wrap up Adrian, this has been awesome. Thank you for this. Going to the rapid fire stuff here. Bitcoin at 100k. When will it happen?

Adrjan Scekic:

 38:32

Wow. I didn't expect this one. I think before the end of this year, I think. Maybe if I have to guess, September sounds good. I really don't know. Before the end of the year I think.

Matt Zahab:

 38:48

That is definitely a tough one. The team at strike Jack Mahler's and his team I don't know if you saw the news that came out but they sponsored the number 21 car in the Indy 500 there will be a Bitcoin car in the Indy 500. Where will that car place?

Adrjan Scekic:

 39:06

Wow, I really don't follow Indy, any type of racing actually. Three weeks ago for the first time I watched the Formula One race. A guy had to explain it to me and still don't know how it really works. So I don't know what is good, what is bad. I really don't know anything about Indy race.

Matt Zahab:

 39:28

It is a great looking car though.

Adrjan Scekic:

 39:31

I'm gonna look it up.

Matt Zahab:

 39:31

It is. it's a great looking car. But Adrijan, this has been awesome. We'd really appreciate your time here on the show. I'm sure our guests certainly will learn a lot on this episode. Big fan of your company CRYPTOTAG, and everyone go check them out if you haven't already. Before we let you go where can our guests find you and CRYPTOTAG on social?

Adrjan Scekic:

 39:52

Social, you can find us on Twitter, we're on LinkedIn, we're , I guess also on Instagram. That's Maarten's department so everywhere if you just Google CRYPTOTAG you will, you have to be blind to miss us. So if you need to know anything or you want to know anything more about the product, there's a chat box also on our website. You can contact us through Twitter. Twitter is our main thing. Crypto Twitter, so it would be most logical to go there or to our website.

Matt Zahab:

 40:22

What about you? Any socials for Adrijan?

Adrjan Scekic:

 40:24

No, I'm a social media dinosaur. I like to keep my attention focused on the company and other things. So I'm, yeah, I'm quite old fashioned.

Matt Zahab:

 40:36

Ghost mode. No problem with that at all.

Adrjan Scekic:

 40:38

Yes.

Matt Zahab:

 40:39

Adrijan, thank you so much for jumping on and we'd love to have you on soon. Thanks again. Appreciate it.

Adrjan Scekic:

 40:44

Thank you Matt. Enjoy your day. Cheers.

Matt Zahab:

 40:46

Thank you. Folks, this was the crypto news podcast with Adrijan from CRYPTOTAG, really hope you like this episode. As always, if you did enjoy it, it would mean the world to us if you could subscribe to our podcast. We are on all the big players, apple, podcasts, Spotify, overcast, Google, Amazon, you name it, we are there. You can also check us out on our website, cryptonews.com. I am Matt Zahab the host of the show. Thanks again for tuning in and a big thanks to our team, as always could not have done this without you. And big thanks to David Nathan, our French crypto guru who helped set this up with Adrijan. Big thanks, Isabelle Mercier as well, our cry to guru who is also a pro poker player. Folks really hope ou enjoyed this episode. Love ou all and have a great rest of he day.